2019年《有故事的人：......因為你是女人》
淡江大學英文系頂石計畫
翻譯專題觀劇後採訪
The Capstone Project of the English Department of Tamkang University
指導教授：吳怡芬 (I-fen Wu)
藝術總監組：康雅亭 (Ya-ting Kang)／王羿婷 (Yi-ting Wang)／
謝昀真(Yun-chen Hsieh)／何家祁(Jia-qi He)
「文青」是現在年輕世代的風潮之一。身為淡江的學生，了解淡水當地的人文藝術是必要的。在尋找淡水在地藝術的過程中，駐足在淡水的身聲劇團 (Sun Son Theatre) 成為我們的首選，他們以聲音與肢體語言的融合創作出多元的作品，除了創新之外，身聲的表演也帶觀眾體驗人類最原始的表達方式。而我們也藉由親自專訪身聲劇團藝術總監的機會，將身聲創團與創作過程的寶貴經驗作為專題，希望能夠讓身為淡江青年的我們，更進一層地去了解在地藝術和它背後創建的美妙歷史。
The term, “Hipster,” is one of the trends nowadays in Taiwan. As we are students in Tamkang University (淡江大學), we find it is significant that we should appreciate Tamsui’s (淡水) local art. Thus, the members of the Sun Son Theatre (身聲劇團) group in Tamsui are our first choice to interview. Sun Son Theatre produces a variety of productions by using sounds and body performance. Apart from creating innovative works, Sun Son Theatre also takes the audience to experience the primordial way of performance. We are very honoured to have an interview with Leonson NG (吳忠良), the artistic director of Sun Son Theatre. We focus our project on Sun Son Theatre and its members’ experiences of artistic creation, hoping that we will be able to comprehend their ideas of performing art and their wonderful founding history.
The term, “Hipster,” is one of the trends nowadays in Taiwan. As we are students in Tamkang University (淡江大學), we find it is significant that we should appreciate Tamsui’s (淡水) local art. Thus, the members of the Sun Son Theatre (身聲劇團) group in Tamsui are our first choice to interview. Sun Son Theatre produces a variety of productions by using sounds and body performance. Apart from creating innovative works, Sun Son Theatre also takes the audience to experience the primordial way of performance. We are very honoured to have an interview with Leonson NG (吳忠良), the artistic director of Sun Son Theatre. We focus our project on Sun Son Theatre and its members’ experiences of artistic creation, hoping that we will be able to comprehend their ideas of performing art and their wonderful founding history.
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身聲劇場 藝術總監
吳忠良 身聲劇場創辦人之一。目前擔任身聲劇場之藝術總監與導演統籌。吳忠良自馬來西亞藝術學院戲劇系在學期間即擴展自己表演語彙的多元與自由性。由於對原始儀式及藝術所透露出超越文化語言、可連結人類共通經驗的語彙一直有特別強烈的情感，1998年與幾位劇場工作者成立身聲劇場後，在創作上即全力關注探索身體聲音最本然的力量與美感，從融合聲音（器樂、人聲等）、肢體、戲劇、儀式、環境等元素的訓練中研究與呈現純粹而且有機的表演能量；傳達沒有種族文化界限，更開放自由的身體與聲音表演方式。導演之重要劇場作品有《佪聲》、《被遺忘的世界》、《旋》、《光．音》、《光與聲的島嶼》、《狂擊》、《尋龍記》、《樂鬧人生》；導演統籌作品有《摘星星的人》、《惡女之花》、《一個洞》、《厝邊皮影班》、《群婆亂舞》、《噬》、《春釘》、《續．春釘－告別作者》；擔任2014年台北藝術節《目連拯救母親大地》演出製作人。2008年至2016年間擔任六年新北市淡水環境藝術節總監；2011年及2016年大型環境劇場《西仔反傳說》總導演。2005年導演作品《光．音》獲得台新藝術獎十大表演藝術作品公開表揚，2007年獲得亞洲文化協會（ACC）獎助學金赴紐約研習。 |
Q1. 總監上次的訪問中有提到想要有更大的表演空間，而在這次的單人劇則是屬於小舞台劇的表演，以後有沒有可能會以大舞台的形式來呈現個人劇？
A1. 這次的單人劇的確比較適合以小舞台劇呈現，而我們想要更大的表演空間，一方面是可以容納更多觀眾，另一方面是希望可以將我們身聲劇場的樂器館融入我們的劇中。有一個大的表演空間表示著我們可以將表演縮小，同時擁有更多的觀眾。但是如果場地不夠大，我們就不能呈現更大規模的表演，表演是縮放自如的，但還是得在場地允許的範圍內。而身聲劇場的樂器館是我們的推廣部，其中包含教育課程還有工作坊，我們希望在未來能將樂器館與劇場融入，打造出更多表演的風格與呈現方式。
Q1. You mentioned in the previous interview that you wish to have a bigger stage for performance. As The Story Teller: …because you are a woman (《有故事的人:…因為你是女人》is a monodrama performed in a small stage, will you try to use a bigger one to perform a monodrama?
A1. It is for sure that monodrama is better suited for a small stage. The reason we want a bigger capacity is that we want to have more space to contain more audience. We also need a space for the instrumental studio in Son Sun Theatre because we wish to combine the studio with our performance. Our instrumental studio is also our promotion centre, which provides educational curriculums and workshops. We are hoping to bring our instrumental studio into our theatre, and to open up more possibilities to our performance.
Q2. 這次單人劇的表演在角色的呈現與表演風格都很傑出，您認為單人劇在難度跟挑戰性上，對於激發演員的潛能是否有幫助？身聲劇場是否也會繼續以單人劇的方式演出呢？
A2. 單人劇是最難演的一種戲劇，演員可能在劇中需要詮釋多名角色跟情境，並使用多種道具，有時也需要用到舞蹈才能完整詮釋一場劇。所以單人劇的挑戰性很高，我也很推薦演員在一生中一定要做一次單人劇。身聲劇團在過去也有很多單人劇的表演，像是《噬》和《在自己的房間》都是以單人劇來呈現的，其他也有很多小的單人劇表演沒有公開。
Q2. The characters and the performance of The Story Teller: …because you are a woman are both fascinating. Do you think that monodrama can stimulate an actor’s/actress’ potential in acting? Will Sun Son Theatre plan to present more monodramas in the future?
A2. I encourage actors and actresses to participate in a monodrama at least once in their career. Monodramas are extremely challenging to perform because the actor/actress has to interpret multiple characters, space scenes and use multiple props. Sun Son Theatre has produced a few monodramas in the past, such as Heart of Darkness (《噬》) and Once Upon A Daydream (《在自己的房間》) . We have produced a few more monodramas, but they were not opened to the public.
Q3. 身聲劇團以後會有與更多不同國家或文化背景的劇團合作的機會嗎？
A3. 我們很認同也很喜歡與不同國家與文化的藝術家合作，不論是演員、導演或是編劇。去年，我們與一個墨西哥的面具導演工作坊合作，一起戴著他們的面具來呈現一齣關於大自然遭受破壞的表演；在台北藝術節與德國的導演合作《目連拯救母親大地》，以西方人的觀點呈現東方人的地獄；也有與印尼的行為藝術家合作表演印尼傳統開齋節。享受不同的文化經驗，這是非常難得的。
Q3. Will Sun Son Theatre have more opportunities to cooperate with other troupes from different countries in the future?
A3. We are very happy to collaborate with artists from different countries and cultures. Last year, Sun Son Theatre cooperated with a Mexican mask workshop. We wore masks they made to perform a play related to our exploited Mother Nature. Furthermore, we also teamed up with Kevin Rittberger, a German director, to perform a play called Mulian Rescues Mother Earth (《目連拯救母親大地》) at the Taipei Arts Festival 2014. (Mulian Rescues Mother Earth is an adaption of the best-known Buddhist tale “Mulian Rescues His Mother” (《目連救母》). The tale is about Mulian who descends to the lowest level of hell to save his sinful mother.) Mulian Rescues Mother Earth showed the traditional concept of hell in Eastern society, yet, it was presented through western perspectives. Moreover, we also enjoyed different cultures by working with artists from Indonesia, performing a play that featured a traditional Indonesian festival, Eid al-Fitr. Thus, the experiences of working with these foreign artists are very precious and interesting.
Q4. 身聲劇團未來會透過表演創作去探討台灣現今的社會議題嗎?
A4. 身聲劇團的創作主題一直以來都環繞在人與環境之間的關係，因為我們相信不同環境會造就出不同背景的人，並影響他們在面對種種事情所做出的選擇。環境與人是密不可分的，而環境本身會影響我們所身處的社會，這也就包含教育、政治種種議題。但作品最後還是會回溯到人的本身。我們希望透過藝術創作表現出人在環境影響下所展現出不同樣貌的美感。
Q4. Will Sun Son Theatre tackle with more contemporary social issues in Taiwan in the future?
A4. Sun Son Theatre has always been concerned with the relationship between humans and the environment, for we believe that a different environment not only will lead people to have different thoughts, but it will also influence people to make different choices when they encounter all sorts of various things. The environment and humans are inseparable from each other. Moreover, the community can be affected and changed by our environment, so our productions touch the issues of education and politics and so on. Sun Son Theatre uses artistic works to emphasise the relationship between humans and the environment. We hope that we are able to show the human sense of beauty under the influence of the environment.
Q5. 請問總監對藝術創作有興趣的年輕一輩有什麼想說的話嗎?
A5. 人常說「藝術一定要有技術」。技術是在任何藝術創作上很重要的一節，但是「有技術並不一定就是藝術」。我認為除了技術，對於創作和美學上都必須要找出自己的觀點。雖然有些人認為創作和天賦有一定的關係，但是我覺得天賦只是讓人在藝術學習上領悟得比較快速，但是天賦並不是藝術創作的一切。只要心有所想，人人都可以創作藝術，但也要在後天加強自己的技術與藝術相關的知識。另外在面對藝術創作要有相當多的耐心，好的藝術是要得花時間去醞釀並增加質感與內容的深度，急著在短時間內草草完成的作品是不能打動人心的。
Q5. Do you have any suggestions for those who are interested in art and performance?
A5. People always say that “Skill is an indispensable element to art.” Skill plays a very important part in artistic creation, but “skill is not equivalent to art.” In addition to skill, I think you must find your own point of view for creation and aesthetics. Although some people think that creation has something to do with talent, I think talent lets people have a quick understanding of artistic learning, but talent is not everything in artistic creation. As long as you want to create art, you have to improve your knowledge of skills and art. In addition, it takes time and patience to have artistic creation. The work which is rushed to complete is not able to touch people.
A1. 這次的單人劇的確比較適合以小舞台劇呈現，而我們想要更大的表演空間，一方面是可以容納更多觀眾，另一方面是希望可以將我們身聲劇場的樂器館融入我們的劇中。有一個大的表演空間表示著我們可以將表演縮小，同時擁有更多的觀眾。但是如果場地不夠大，我們就不能呈現更大規模的表演，表演是縮放自如的，但還是得在場地允許的範圍內。而身聲劇場的樂器館是我們的推廣部，其中包含教育課程還有工作坊，我們希望在未來能將樂器館與劇場融入，打造出更多表演的風格與呈現方式。
Q1. You mentioned in the previous interview that you wish to have a bigger stage for performance. As The Story Teller: …because you are a woman (《有故事的人:…因為你是女人》is a monodrama performed in a small stage, will you try to use a bigger one to perform a monodrama?
A1. It is for sure that monodrama is better suited for a small stage. The reason we want a bigger capacity is that we want to have more space to contain more audience. We also need a space for the instrumental studio in Son Sun Theatre because we wish to combine the studio with our performance. Our instrumental studio is also our promotion centre, which provides educational curriculums and workshops. We are hoping to bring our instrumental studio into our theatre, and to open up more possibilities to our performance.
Q2. 這次單人劇的表演在角色的呈現與表演風格都很傑出，您認為單人劇在難度跟挑戰性上，對於激發演員的潛能是否有幫助？身聲劇場是否也會繼續以單人劇的方式演出呢？
A2. 單人劇是最難演的一種戲劇，演員可能在劇中需要詮釋多名角色跟情境，並使用多種道具，有時也需要用到舞蹈才能完整詮釋一場劇。所以單人劇的挑戰性很高，我也很推薦演員在一生中一定要做一次單人劇。身聲劇團在過去也有很多單人劇的表演，像是《噬》和《在自己的房間》都是以單人劇來呈現的，其他也有很多小的單人劇表演沒有公開。
Q2. The characters and the performance of The Story Teller: …because you are a woman are both fascinating. Do you think that monodrama can stimulate an actor’s/actress’ potential in acting? Will Sun Son Theatre plan to present more monodramas in the future?
A2. I encourage actors and actresses to participate in a monodrama at least once in their career. Monodramas are extremely challenging to perform because the actor/actress has to interpret multiple characters, space scenes and use multiple props. Sun Son Theatre has produced a few monodramas in the past, such as Heart of Darkness (《噬》) and Once Upon A Daydream (《在自己的房間》) . We have produced a few more monodramas, but they were not opened to the public.
Q3. 身聲劇團以後會有與更多不同國家或文化背景的劇團合作的機會嗎？
A3. 我們很認同也很喜歡與不同國家與文化的藝術家合作，不論是演員、導演或是編劇。去年，我們與一個墨西哥的面具導演工作坊合作，一起戴著他們的面具來呈現一齣關於大自然遭受破壞的表演；在台北藝術節與德國的導演合作《目連拯救母親大地》，以西方人的觀點呈現東方人的地獄；也有與印尼的行為藝術家合作表演印尼傳統開齋節。享受不同的文化經驗，這是非常難得的。
Q3. Will Sun Son Theatre have more opportunities to cooperate with other troupes from different countries in the future?
A3. We are very happy to collaborate with artists from different countries and cultures. Last year, Sun Son Theatre cooperated with a Mexican mask workshop. We wore masks they made to perform a play related to our exploited Mother Nature. Furthermore, we also teamed up with Kevin Rittberger, a German director, to perform a play called Mulian Rescues Mother Earth (《目連拯救母親大地》) at the Taipei Arts Festival 2014. (Mulian Rescues Mother Earth is an adaption of the best-known Buddhist tale “Mulian Rescues His Mother” (《目連救母》). The tale is about Mulian who descends to the lowest level of hell to save his sinful mother.) Mulian Rescues Mother Earth showed the traditional concept of hell in Eastern society, yet, it was presented through western perspectives. Moreover, we also enjoyed different cultures by working with artists from Indonesia, performing a play that featured a traditional Indonesian festival, Eid al-Fitr. Thus, the experiences of working with these foreign artists are very precious and interesting.
Q4. 身聲劇團未來會透過表演創作去探討台灣現今的社會議題嗎?
A4. 身聲劇團的創作主題一直以來都環繞在人與環境之間的關係，因為我們相信不同環境會造就出不同背景的人，並影響他們在面對種種事情所做出的選擇。環境與人是密不可分的，而環境本身會影響我們所身處的社會，這也就包含教育、政治種種議題。但作品最後還是會回溯到人的本身。我們希望透過藝術創作表現出人在環境影響下所展現出不同樣貌的美感。
Q4. Will Sun Son Theatre tackle with more contemporary social issues in Taiwan in the future?
A4. Sun Son Theatre has always been concerned with the relationship between humans and the environment, for we believe that a different environment not only will lead people to have different thoughts, but it will also influence people to make different choices when they encounter all sorts of various things. The environment and humans are inseparable from each other. Moreover, the community can be affected and changed by our environment, so our productions touch the issues of education and politics and so on. Sun Son Theatre uses artistic works to emphasise the relationship between humans and the environment. We hope that we are able to show the human sense of beauty under the influence of the environment.
Q5. 請問總監對藝術創作有興趣的年輕一輩有什麼想說的話嗎?
A5. 人常說「藝術一定要有技術」。技術是在任何藝術創作上很重要的一節，但是「有技術並不一定就是藝術」。我認為除了技術，對於創作和美學上都必須要找出自己的觀點。雖然有些人認為創作和天賦有一定的關係，但是我覺得天賦只是讓人在藝術學習上領悟得比較快速，但是天賦並不是藝術創作的一切。只要心有所想，人人都可以創作藝術，但也要在後天加強自己的技術與藝術相關的知識。另外在面對藝術創作要有相當多的耐心，好的藝術是要得花時間去醞釀並增加質感與內容的深度，急著在短時間內草草完成的作品是不能打動人心的。
Q5. Do you have any suggestions for those who are interested in art and performance?
A5. People always say that “Skill is an indispensable element to art.” Skill plays a very important part in artistic creation, but “skill is not equivalent to art.” In addition to skill, I think you must find your own point of view for creation and aesthetics. Although some people think that creation has something to do with talent, I think talent lets people have a quick understanding of artistic learning, but talent is not everything in artistic creation. As long as you want to create art, you have to improve your knowledge of skills and art. In addition, it takes time and patience to have artistic creation. The work which is rushed to complete is not able to touch people.
《有故事的人：......因為你是女人》
導演組：陳千愛(Chien-ai Chen)／王婷萱(Ting-hsuan Wang)／
王璦葶(Ai-ting Wang)／吳庭甄 (Ting-zhen Wu)
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導演介紹
馬來西亞 劇場才女導演 黃麗珍 Wong Lay Chin 黃麗珍，Move Creativ 藝術總監、新紀元大學學院戲劇影像系講師以及華德福學堂戲劇導師。 1993年開始接觸戲劇，1999年赴台灣國立臺北藝術大學進修深研戲劇，師承屏風表演班已故李國修老師，主修導演。旅台期間曾參與多部經典舞臺作品，如：田納斯．威廉斯的《熱鐵皮屋頂上的貓》、郭寶昆的《000麼》、金士傑的《明天我們空中再見》及屏風經典製作《女兒紅》等。2009年返馬後繼續奉獻戲劇界，曾參與《三姐妹》、《紀念日》等演出。 2012年加入檳城表演藝術中心(penangpac)，為駐館導演與學院策劃，其作品《被綁在馬桶上的男人》(2011)、《香店 - 三個女人一個墟》(2012, 2013)、《打字經》(2013, 2014) 與《我要上天的那一晚》(2014)、《開放夫妻》(2015) 與《惜陽》(2015)、《老人不再家》(2016) 、《有故事的人》(2016, 2017) 在檳城表演藝術中心、吉隆玻表演藝術中心以及台灣（臺北、高雄）上演時更多場爆滿，深獲好評。 2017年始在新紀元大學學院戲劇影像系擔任講師，主帶表演以及排演課。同時繼續創作《有故事的人》系列二：《有故事的人：……因為你是女人》 (2018) ，並在今年5月獲得高雄『不貧窮藝術節』邀請演出，深具迴響。此劇也將於2019年，在大馬各地、臺北、印度巡演。 |
馬來西亞導演黃麗珍（Lay Chin Wong）於3/29與3/30帶著她的最新創作《有故事的人：……因為你是女人》(The Storyteller: …because you are a woman) 在身聲劇場演出。故事發生在馬來西亞檳城喬治市 (George Town, Penang)，透過三個女人，三個角色— 阿嬤、媽媽和女兒的對話，討論不同世代的女人對婚姻的看法。黃麗珍導演一向擅長處理男女情感以及婚姻的話題，讓我們來一窺導演的內心世界。
Malaysian director Lay Chin Wong（黃麗珍） is about to present her new work The Storyteller: …because you are a woman（《有故事的人：……因為你是女人》）at Sun Son Theater on March 29th and 30th. The story takes place in George Town, Penang, Malaysia（檳城喬治市). Through the conversations of the three major characters in this play— grandmother, mother and daughter, the director discusses marriage from the viewpoints of women in different generations. Lay Chin Wong has always been good at dealing with issues of relationships and marriage. How will she explore these issues and present them in this play? Let's explore at the director’s inner world.
Q1. 在《有故事的人：......因為你是女人》(The Storyteller: …because you are a woman)當中，您探討了婚姻對於女性的意義，那麼請問對導演來說，婚姻除了是一種制度以外，還可以有什麼樣的想像？
A1. 婚姻在某種程度上，可以說是種傳統；例如外婆結婚之後，她希望自己的女兒結婚；而當外婆的女兒身分轉化為一位媽媽時，她也會希望自己的女兒能結婚。大家好像都會把結婚看成是幸福的來源，而這個幸福的來源是一種「相信」！儘管媽媽自己本身的婚姻亂七八糟的，但她還是對婚姻抱有憧憬，所以才會希望自己的女兒也能結婚。
其實很多時候女人不會把婚姻看作是所謂的制度，她們反倒是感性得認為結婚就是種幸福。至於制度比較像是社會賦予的「就是要將兩個人綁在一起的」這種方式。
Q1. In The storyteller: ...because you are a woman, you discuss the meaning of marriage for women. In addition to a social system, does marriage suggest any other meaning to you?
A1. Marriage, to a certain degree, is a tradition. For example, after the grandmother gets married, she hopes her daughter to get married; when the daughter becomes a mother, she also hopes her daughter to get married. Everyone appears to see marriage as a source of happiness, and this happiness results from a kind of “faith.” in marriage. Even though the mother’s marriage is a mess, she still has a positive vision towards marriage. Therefore, that is the reason why she hopes her daughter to get married. Marriage is more than just a system to tie two people together. In fact, most women are sensitive and they see marriage as a happiness rather than consider it as a system.
Q2. 我們的社會對於結婚有一種「家庭圓滿」的情結，不婚主義者時常無法被作為獨立的個體來看待，那麼當我們面臨這種不符合「圓滿」的期待時，我們要用什麼心情來平衡自主權與這個社會的價值衝突？
A2. 其實我沒有想過這個問題，也甚至不認為有所謂的衝突，原因一來是我主張結婚與否是個人的選擇，再來就是這個時代的女人不像過去那樣，可能會因為經濟的受限而無法生活自理，過去長輩會為未婚者感到擔心，這份擔心單純是建立在對於晚年生活的考量，長輩擔心兒女年邁時會沒人照應、陪伴，可能會顯得很淒涼，但其實現代社會中也不乏超越血脈和制度的關係。總結來說，婚不婚的議題與其以衝突來看待，我更傾向把它視作一個可以被理解的代溝。
Q2. It is generally considered that marriage leads people to have a happy family. Those who do not want to get married sometimes are not considered as independent individuals. How should we deal with the struggle between the social anticipation of having a happy family and our right to control our own fate?
A2. I have never thought of this question and I don’t even think there is a so-called conflict. It is partly because getting married is a personal choice, and partly because women of this generation are not like those of the past. In the past, women might not be able to financially support themselves.Therefore, that’s the reason why the elders worried that nobody could take care of their single son/daughter when they were getting old. Nowadays, this worry is no longer necessary because there are many kinds of relationship which are beyond the bond of family and marriage. In brief, instead of seeing the issue of getting married or not as a conflict, I tend to see it as a part of the generation gap that can be understood.
Q3. 看了導演在臉書分享的網誌〈E世代的戀情〉，當中有一句話您這麼寫道：「在這個世代女孩的勇氣讓她變得不一樣。勇氣會讓一個人閃閃發亮、明媚動人，女孩也是。」那麼想請問導演，當我們回到劇中母親或外婆的世代，是什麼東西讓她們閃閃發亮呢？
A3. 其實每個女性背後都有她們自己的故事，而這些故事不論精彩或無趣，只要當她們很勇敢的去做一件事情的時候，都是動人、閃閃發亮的。以外婆來說，她對婚姻的強烈信仰讓她閃閃發亮；因為就算在那個身不由己的年代，她也始終堅信婚姻是會為她帶來幸福的。她默默地以這股力量堅持下去，而不是去糾結婚姻當中的種種不幸。至於母親的部份，我覺得使她閃閃發亮的是她無私的母愛，比如她在劇中對女兒說：「我想要給妳一個完整的家庭」，這句話展現了她作為母親的女性力量。
Q3. In one of your posts on Facebook, “Romance of E Generation,” you shared a quote that impressed us: “It is courage that distinguishes women of this generation. Courage makes a person become dazzling.” After reading this quote, we wonder what is the element that marks the grandmother and the mother in the drama extraordinary in their generations?
A3. In fact, every woman has her own story. Whether it is interesting or not, it is very dazzling when one is consistent to achieve her goal. Take the grandmother as an example, I think her devoted faith in her marriage makes her brilliant. The reason is that even when she lives in such a repressive generation, she does not struggle with insoluble unhappiness. Instead, she keeps a strong faith that marriage can lead her to happiness. This faith supports her entire life. As for the mother, I think what makes her dazzling is her unselfish maternal love. For instance, she says to her daughter: “I want to give you a sound family,” I think this quote shows how strong she is as a mother.
Q4. 母親獨自承擔了整段幾乎沒有伴侶的婚姻關係，然而在這部戲的最後，母親對女兒說：「不管怎麼樣，這是我們上一代的事情。拜託妳不要被我影響，一直覺得婚姻不好。」請問導演，我們可以將母親這份轉換的心情看成一種「勇氣」嗎？
A4. 也可以這樣理解沒錯，但我在寫台詞時所想的其實是，儘管母親仍舊是基於傳統的觀點而希望女兒成家，不過在她自己經歷一場如此磨難的婚姻之後，她最後能夠釋懷，進而跟女兒溝通彼此對婚姻的看法，這比較像是一種瀕臨和解邊緣的狀態，她要告訴女兒的就是，反正茶具現在傳承給她了，無論她使用與否，母親都願意尊重她的決定。
Q4. In the drama, the mother involves herself in a marriage without a husband. However, at the end of the drama, she says to her daughter that “No matter what has happened between me and your father, please leave it to me. Do not be influenced by me and therefore consider marriage as something awful.” Can we say that the mother’s opinion towards marriage has been transformed into a courage towards life?
A4. Yes, you can see her in this way. However, when I wrote the lines you mentioned in the question, what was in my mind is not the idea of courage. It is based on a traditional perspective that the mother hopes her daughter to get married, but after having experienced hardship in marriage, she is able to communicate better with her daughter and does not urge her to get married. It is more like a state of reconciliation. What she wants to tell her daughter is that, whether to get married or not, she will respect her decision.
Q5. 請問導演，劇裡外婆無法割捨家暴的丈夫以及母親對於自己婚姻狀態的心情，能否算是認命的狀態？抑或她們這種為了家庭的付出是所謂的成全？
A5. 認命跟成全是兩件事情。認命是認清楚自己現在的狀態並且被動的默默接受；成全是儘管有能力改變現在的狀態卻決定不去改變，因為知道改變不一定是最好的做法，反而不改變能使對方更圓滿一些。所以成全是主動地做決定；認命卻只是很被動的一種妥協，也因此將很多事都怪罪在命運上面。
在此齣戲裡面，基本上外婆是認命的、媽媽是成全的，而她們的出發點都是為了下一代。但這些定義也不是絕對的，因為這些角色不只有一個狀態，在戲裡她們是一直有故事在發生的。就像外婆從對自己的命運認命到女兒要離婚這件事發生，突然變大膽、有勇氣去支持女兒離婚，這也是種成全；而媽媽的成全是自以為的，自以為成全女兒，給她一個完整的家，但成全這字又有點刻板，所以與其說成全，不如說是愛，一種希望女兒能在不受世俗眼光影響的環境，安穩成長的愛。
Q5. In the drama, the grandmother can’t cleave the relationship with her violent husband and the mother’s attitude toward her marriage is very constrained. Can we say that the two women have yielded to their fate? Or should we say it is just something they did in order to keep their family?
A5. Actually, to yield to one’s fate and to sacrifice one for others are totally different. The former is that you know your situation very well and you passively accept it; the latter is that you know your situation and are capable to alter it, but decide not to make any changes. You stay quiet because you know making changes is not the best way and that even make it a little better for others. Therefore, to sacrifice for others is an active decision and to yield to one’s fate is a passive compromise. That’s also the reason why many people blame lots of things on their fate.
Basically, in the drama I would say that the grandmother is the one who yielded to her fate and the mother is the one who sacrificed for her family. Both of them intended to create a better environment for their children. However, what I said about the grandmother and the mother is not the only possible explanation because these characters have to handle many situations. As the story keeps developing, the characters may transform simultaneously. For example, the grandmother transforms from a woman who yields to her fate into a bold and fearless woman, and supports her daughter to divorce her husband. As for the mother, she sacrifices her marriage in order to give her daughter a sound family. What she did is to make a unilateral decision because it might not be what the daughter wants. However, it’s a bit too much to call it a “unilateral decision.” I would rather say it is a decision made out of love. It is a mother’s love which hopes her daughter to live in a non-biased environment and grow up to be healthy and happy.
Q6. 從1978年到2018年，40年的時間改變了母親，使她從原先的壓抑度日，以及過度在意他人眼光，到後來能夠對過去侃侃而談，這是否是導演對於傳統與新世代產生衝突時的其中一種解決方案？
A6. 起初在寫劇本時並沒想那麼多，但在寫這三個角色時，突然發現這三個女人的壓力，不論是被家暴、精神上的暴力、結婚與否亦或是被人輿論等等，都是來自於男性以及這個社會對女性的框架，所以我就開始思考，這三個女人彼此是有血緣連結的關係，那為何她們三個女性不能自己先和解？因為她們要是不先和解，而一昧覺得她們的壓力是社會和男性害的，那在這個高喊性別平等的現代社會根本是很可笑的，所以最一開始的劇本設定其實就是要她們和解。
Q6. From 1978 to 2018, the mother has changed from a young woman who repressed her emotion and cared about others’ opinions to become a mature person who is open-minded about people. Does it mean that time is one of the solutions to resolve the conflict between tradition and new generation?
A6. At first, I did not think about this matter. When I was writing about these three characters, it struck me that their pressure, either domestic violence, mental violence or marriage, all came from men and the social constraints placed on women. So I started to think that since these three characters had deep connections and relationships, why could they not reconcile with each other. If they did not reconcile with each other and blindly felt all the pressure coming from society and men, it would be ridiculous and ironic because gender equality is claimed to be important in the society. Therefore, a reconciliation among the three characters was the starting point for me to write the script.
Malaysian director Lay Chin Wong（黃麗珍） is about to present her new work The Storyteller: …because you are a woman（《有故事的人：……因為你是女人》）at Sun Son Theater on March 29th and 30th. The story takes place in George Town, Penang, Malaysia（檳城喬治市). Through the conversations of the three major characters in this play— grandmother, mother and daughter, the director discusses marriage from the viewpoints of women in different generations. Lay Chin Wong has always been good at dealing with issues of relationships and marriage. How will she explore these issues and present them in this play? Let's explore at the director’s inner world.
Q1. 在《有故事的人：......因為你是女人》(The Storyteller: …because you are a woman)當中，您探討了婚姻對於女性的意義，那麼請問對導演來說，婚姻除了是一種制度以外，還可以有什麼樣的想像？
A1. 婚姻在某種程度上，可以說是種傳統；例如外婆結婚之後，她希望自己的女兒結婚；而當外婆的女兒身分轉化為一位媽媽時，她也會希望自己的女兒能結婚。大家好像都會把結婚看成是幸福的來源，而這個幸福的來源是一種「相信」！儘管媽媽自己本身的婚姻亂七八糟的，但她還是對婚姻抱有憧憬，所以才會希望自己的女兒也能結婚。
其實很多時候女人不會把婚姻看作是所謂的制度，她們反倒是感性得認為結婚就是種幸福。至於制度比較像是社會賦予的「就是要將兩個人綁在一起的」這種方式。
Q1. In The storyteller: ...because you are a woman, you discuss the meaning of marriage for women. In addition to a social system, does marriage suggest any other meaning to you?
A1. Marriage, to a certain degree, is a tradition. For example, after the grandmother gets married, she hopes her daughter to get married; when the daughter becomes a mother, she also hopes her daughter to get married. Everyone appears to see marriage as a source of happiness, and this happiness results from a kind of “faith.” in marriage. Even though the mother’s marriage is a mess, she still has a positive vision towards marriage. Therefore, that is the reason why she hopes her daughter to get married. Marriage is more than just a system to tie two people together. In fact, most women are sensitive and they see marriage as a happiness rather than consider it as a system.
Q2. 我們的社會對於結婚有一種「家庭圓滿」的情結，不婚主義者時常無法被作為獨立的個體來看待，那麼當我們面臨這種不符合「圓滿」的期待時，我們要用什麼心情來平衡自主權與這個社會的價值衝突？
A2. 其實我沒有想過這個問題，也甚至不認為有所謂的衝突，原因一來是我主張結婚與否是個人的選擇，再來就是這個時代的女人不像過去那樣，可能會因為經濟的受限而無法生活自理，過去長輩會為未婚者感到擔心，這份擔心單純是建立在對於晚年生活的考量，長輩擔心兒女年邁時會沒人照應、陪伴，可能會顯得很淒涼，但其實現代社會中也不乏超越血脈和制度的關係。總結來說，婚不婚的議題與其以衝突來看待，我更傾向把它視作一個可以被理解的代溝。
Q2. It is generally considered that marriage leads people to have a happy family. Those who do not want to get married sometimes are not considered as independent individuals. How should we deal with the struggle between the social anticipation of having a happy family and our right to control our own fate?
A2. I have never thought of this question and I don’t even think there is a so-called conflict. It is partly because getting married is a personal choice, and partly because women of this generation are not like those of the past. In the past, women might not be able to financially support themselves.Therefore, that’s the reason why the elders worried that nobody could take care of their single son/daughter when they were getting old. Nowadays, this worry is no longer necessary because there are many kinds of relationship which are beyond the bond of family and marriage. In brief, instead of seeing the issue of getting married or not as a conflict, I tend to see it as a part of the generation gap that can be understood.
Q3. 看了導演在臉書分享的網誌〈E世代的戀情〉，當中有一句話您這麼寫道：「在這個世代女孩的勇氣讓她變得不一樣。勇氣會讓一個人閃閃發亮、明媚動人，女孩也是。」那麼想請問導演，當我們回到劇中母親或外婆的世代，是什麼東西讓她們閃閃發亮呢？
A3. 其實每個女性背後都有她們自己的故事，而這些故事不論精彩或無趣，只要當她們很勇敢的去做一件事情的時候，都是動人、閃閃發亮的。以外婆來說，她對婚姻的強烈信仰讓她閃閃發亮；因為就算在那個身不由己的年代，她也始終堅信婚姻是會為她帶來幸福的。她默默地以這股力量堅持下去，而不是去糾結婚姻當中的種種不幸。至於母親的部份，我覺得使她閃閃發亮的是她無私的母愛，比如她在劇中對女兒說：「我想要給妳一個完整的家庭」，這句話展現了她作為母親的女性力量。
Q3. In one of your posts on Facebook, “Romance of E Generation,” you shared a quote that impressed us: “It is courage that distinguishes women of this generation. Courage makes a person become dazzling.” After reading this quote, we wonder what is the element that marks the grandmother and the mother in the drama extraordinary in their generations?
A3. In fact, every woman has her own story. Whether it is interesting or not, it is very dazzling when one is consistent to achieve her goal. Take the grandmother as an example, I think her devoted faith in her marriage makes her brilliant. The reason is that even when she lives in such a repressive generation, she does not struggle with insoluble unhappiness. Instead, she keeps a strong faith that marriage can lead her to happiness. This faith supports her entire life. As for the mother, I think what makes her dazzling is her unselfish maternal love. For instance, she says to her daughter: “I want to give you a sound family,” I think this quote shows how strong she is as a mother.
Q4. 母親獨自承擔了整段幾乎沒有伴侶的婚姻關係，然而在這部戲的最後，母親對女兒說：「不管怎麼樣，這是我們上一代的事情。拜託妳不要被我影響，一直覺得婚姻不好。」請問導演，我們可以將母親這份轉換的心情看成一種「勇氣」嗎？
A4. 也可以這樣理解沒錯，但我在寫台詞時所想的其實是，儘管母親仍舊是基於傳統的觀點而希望女兒成家，不過在她自己經歷一場如此磨難的婚姻之後，她最後能夠釋懷，進而跟女兒溝通彼此對婚姻的看法，這比較像是一種瀕臨和解邊緣的狀態，她要告訴女兒的就是，反正茶具現在傳承給她了，無論她使用與否，母親都願意尊重她的決定。
Q4. In the drama, the mother involves herself in a marriage without a husband. However, at the end of the drama, she says to her daughter that “No matter what has happened between me and your father, please leave it to me. Do not be influenced by me and therefore consider marriage as something awful.” Can we say that the mother’s opinion towards marriage has been transformed into a courage towards life?
A4. Yes, you can see her in this way. However, when I wrote the lines you mentioned in the question, what was in my mind is not the idea of courage. It is based on a traditional perspective that the mother hopes her daughter to get married, but after having experienced hardship in marriage, she is able to communicate better with her daughter and does not urge her to get married. It is more like a state of reconciliation. What she wants to tell her daughter is that, whether to get married or not, she will respect her decision.
Q5. 請問導演，劇裡外婆無法割捨家暴的丈夫以及母親對於自己婚姻狀態的心情，能否算是認命的狀態？抑或她們這種為了家庭的付出是所謂的成全？
A5. 認命跟成全是兩件事情。認命是認清楚自己現在的狀態並且被動的默默接受；成全是儘管有能力改變現在的狀態卻決定不去改變，因為知道改變不一定是最好的做法，反而不改變能使對方更圓滿一些。所以成全是主動地做決定；認命卻只是很被動的一種妥協，也因此將很多事都怪罪在命運上面。
在此齣戲裡面，基本上外婆是認命的、媽媽是成全的，而她們的出發點都是為了下一代。但這些定義也不是絕對的，因為這些角色不只有一個狀態，在戲裡她們是一直有故事在發生的。就像外婆從對自己的命運認命到女兒要離婚這件事發生，突然變大膽、有勇氣去支持女兒離婚，這也是種成全；而媽媽的成全是自以為的，自以為成全女兒，給她一個完整的家，但成全這字又有點刻板，所以與其說成全，不如說是愛，一種希望女兒能在不受世俗眼光影響的環境，安穩成長的愛。
Q5. In the drama, the grandmother can’t cleave the relationship with her violent husband and the mother’s attitude toward her marriage is very constrained. Can we say that the two women have yielded to their fate? Or should we say it is just something they did in order to keep their family?
A5. Actually, to yield to one’s fate and to sacrifice one for others are totally different. The former is that you know your situation very well and you passively accept it; the latter is that you know your situation and are capable to alter it, but decide not to make any changes. You stay quiet because you know making changes is not the best way and that even make it a little better for others. Therefore, to sacrifice for others is an active decision and to yield to one’s fate is a passive compromise. That’s also the reason why many people blame lots of things on their fate.
Basically, in the drama I would say that the grandmother is the one who yielded to her fate and the mother is the one who sacrificed for her family. Both of them intended to create a better environment for their children. However, what I said about the grandmother and the mother is not the only possible explanation because these characters have to handle many situations. As the story keeps developing, the characters may transform simultaneously. For example, the grandmother transforms from a woman who yields to her fate into a bold and fearless woman, and supports her daughter to divorce her husband. As for the mother, she sacrifices her marriage in order to give her daughter a sound family. What she did is to make a unilateral decision because it might not be what the daughter wants. However, it’s a bit too much to call it a “unilateral decision.” I would rather say it is a decision made out of love. It is a mother’s love which hopes her daughter to live in a non-biased environment and grow up to be healthy and happy.
Q6. 從1978年到2018年，40年的時間改變了母親，使她從原先的壓抑度日，以及過度在意他人眼光，到後來能夠對過去侃侃而談，這是否是導演對於傳統與新世代產生衝突時的其中一種解決方案？
A6. 起初在寫劇本時並沒想那麼多，但在寫這三個角色時，突然發現這三個女人的壓力，不論是被家暴、精神上的暴力、結婚與否亦或是被人輿論等等，都是來自於男性以及這個社會對女性的框架，所以我就開始思考，這三個女人彼此是有血緣連結的關係，那為何她們三個女性不能自己先和解？因為她們要是不先和解，而一昧覺得她們的壓力是社會和男性害的，那在這個高喊性別平等的現代社會根本是很可笑的，所以最一開始的劇本設定其實就是要她們和解。
Q6. From 1978 to 2018, the mother has changed from a young woman who repressed her emotion and cared about others’ opinions to become a mature person who is open-minded about people. Does it mean that time is one of the solutions to resolve the conflict between tradition and new generation?
A6. At first, I did not think about this matter. When I was writing about these three characters, it struck me that their pressure, either domestic violence, mental violence or marriage, all came from men and the social constraints placed on women. So I started to think that since these three characters had deep connections and relationships, why could they not reconcile with each other. If they did not reconcile with each other and blindly felt all the pressure coming from society and men, it would be ridiculous and ironic because gender equality is claimed to be important in the society. Therefore, a reconciliation among the three characters was the starting point for me to write the script.
《有故事的人：......因為你是女人》
演員組：王玥 (Yueh Wang)／梁智軒 (Zhi-xuan Liang)／
黃姵蓉 (Pei-jung Huang)／雷瑪凱 (Reema Kaierua)／朱芩希(Kincy Zhu)
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演員介紹
馬來西亞 劇場最佳女演員 愛美麗亞 Amelia Tan 馬來西亞檳城人。2011年成立劇團我愛工作室，擔任藝術總監。目前為劇場演員、劇場導演、劇場燈光設計、表演導師、兒童戲劇及舞蹈老師。 有馬來西亞劇場奧斯卡之稱的「戲炬獎」大贏家－愛美麗亞，堪稱劇場全能天后，兩度蟬聯最佳女主角、三年最佳燈光設計，更獲頒馬來西亞十大劇場菁英之美譽。畢業於馬來西亞藝術學院戲劇系，隨後赴新加坡跨文化戲劇學院ITI(Intercultural Theatre Institute) 鑽研表演，觸角橫跨劇場台前幕後、教育與研究工作。常代表國家參與國際演出。 |
《有故事的人：......因為你是女人》(The Storyteller: …because you are a woman) 是一齣跨世代對話的單人劇，故事聚焦三位居住在馬來西亞檳城 (Penang, Malaysia) 的女性對於婚姻不同的看法，究竟婚姻對於她們是幸福的代名詞；抑或是失去自我的同義詞？我們將透過馬來西亞劇場天后──愛美麗亞 (Amelia) 精湛的詮釋來瞭解三位女性背後的故事。這次我們也事前採訪愛美麗亞，聽她分享對這齣劇的想法與感觸。
The Storyteller: ......because you are a woman(《有故事的人：......因為你是女人》) is a monodrama which focuses on three women living in Penang (檳城) and their different perspectives on marriage. Is marriage a passage to gain their happiness, or a trap to lose their freedom? Amelia’s (愛美麗亞)impressive performance will lead us to explore the stories of these women. We had an interview with Amelia to learn about her opinions and thoughts on this play.
Q1. 媽媽問祖母說：「我結婚生小孩，妳有沒有高興？」顯示結婚並非出於自己的意願，而是滿足他人的期待，祖母與媽媽的那個時代，社會期待就是只要女性就一定要結婚，但人生真的因婚姻而圓滿嗎？
A1. 當然不是，我覺得現在女性有自己的生活，追求自己的理想，不一定要有圓滿的婚姻才是人生的最大目標。
Q1. In The Storyteller: …because you are a woman, the mother asks the grandmother “are you happy that I am married and have a child?” Through this question, we could tell that in the grandmother’s generation, women were asked to marry not so much of their free will as to merely meet social expectation. Are these women really happy after they get married?
A1. Of course not. I think women these days prefer achieving their own ambition and living their own lives to considering a decent marriage. Marriage is no longer a priority in their life anymore.
Q2. 劇中第三段祖母回應媽媽時，字字句句裡顯露出她守舊及傳統的心態，甚至是一廂情願的「認命」，但最後祖母卻挺身支持媽媽離婚，這其中的轉變是什麼？
A2. 在劇中的那個年代，祖母支持媽媽離婚主要是她想到自己婚姻的不美滿，也擔心自己的女兒（這裡指媽媽的角色）會步向自己的後塵。對祖母來說這其實很難取捨，所以到最後祖母跟她說：「如果丈夫沒辦法照顧妳跟孩子，就離婚吧！如果這個男生對妳不好也不愛妳了，那就放手吧！」
Q2. In The Storyteller: …because you are a woman, the grandmother’s lines reveal conservative and traditional social disciplines, and even show her accommodation to “destiny.” But why does the grandmother speak up in support of the mother’s divorce in the end?
A2. In the play, the grandmother supports mother’s divorce mainly because she feels that her marriage is not happy, and she is also worried that her daughter (the mother) would have an unhappy marriage. Despite the fact that the grandmother is caught in such a dilemma, she still tells her daughter: “If your husband cannot take care of you and your child, you should divorce him!”
Q3. 最讓我印象深刻的是最後一句話，那段錄音帶的聲音：「妳結婚我就歡喜，妳生小孩我更歡喜。」即便導演說此齣劇是開放式結局，但對愛美麗亞您來說這句話是否也隱含著女性仍然活在父系社會的框架？
A3. 媽媽第四段有說到，一段婚姻最重要的是要有一個伴，再到最後她說妳結婚我很開心，妳有小孩我會更開心，可是最後女兒自己的選擇是怎樣，媽媽已經不能夠再做主或再有權利去管妳，媽媽只是把心願講出來，但最重要的還是希望自己的女兒有個伴，幸福就好。
Q3. What impresses me the most is the looped recording at the end, which says “I will be delighted if you marry a decent guy; I will be more delighted if you also have a baby.” Even though the director says the ending of this drama production is open for the audience to interpret, do you think the recording signifies that women are still confined by patriarchal thinking?
A3. Well, as the mother has said, the most important thing in marriage is to have a soul mate. Hence, no matter what choice the daughter would make, the mother has symbolically “freed” the daughter and has let her make her own decision. All the mother can do is to tell the daughter her expectations and traditional values. Regardless of what decision her daughter would make, she will fully support her. What the mother really wants is that her daughter can find a partner and have a happy marriage.
Q4. 「妳開心我就開心」透露出媽媽是帶著祖母的期待踏入婚姻的，她也知道在那個年代女生不結婚會被看不起，即便她其實比較享受一個人過生活。請問您認為這份「期待」所造成的衝突已經消失了嗎？
A4. 媽媽自己覺得不結婚會被看不起，在那個年代，女人都會覺得如果到了一定的年齡，再不被人家娶走，自己可能就是「剩女」，或是一個另類。媽媽其實也沒有覺得一個人比較開心，她覺得要找一個喜歡她的男人，她喜歡的男人要是愛她的，然後要夠帥，但最後沒有想到找到的是一個欺騙她的男人。
Q4. As the mother says to the grandmother, “I am happy if you are happy,” it reveals that the mother got married in order to fulfill the grandmother’s expectation of her. She knows that women would be greatly despised if they are not married, even though they enjoy being single. Do you think that the conflict caused by this “expectation” has disappeared?
A4. The mother feels that she would be looked down upon by others if she had not been married. In the past, women thought that if they were not married, they would be “leftovers.” Although the mother does not find marriage indispensable in her life, she still wants to find a man who is handsome and loves her dearly. However, little does she know that she ends up finding a playboy who cheats on her all the time.
Q5. 我非常欽佩愛美麗亞您在三個角色間的轉換，不論是情緒、聲音、語調都詮釋得非常的傳神，除此之外，我還發現從一開始沒有穿圍裙的女兒，到穿上圍裙的媽媽還有最後圍裙穿到胸部的祖母，請問圍裙在這齣劇有任何象徵意涵嗎？
A5. 一定有的。第二場媽媽圍裙圍在腰部，是因為我們這裡的婦女生產之後都會穿「沙龍」（Sarong，馬來語，指由一片布製成長裙狀的「圍裙」，馬來西亞傳統服裝）， 婦女生產之後都會這樣穿，方便上廁所等等。那像祖母的圍裙穿到胸口，是因為這裡天氣很熱，阿嬤們都會單穿沙龍到胸口，這樣比較涼快，她們也不太在意自己的形象、或很矜持，通常都會這樣穿。
Q5. What we are really impressed by your performance is how you switch playing the roles among the different characters. We also notice the daughter does not wear the Sarong, whereas the mother wears it around her waist and the grandmother wears it up to her chest. Is there any symbolic meaning about the Sarong?
A5. Yes, certainly. There is a meaning about the Sarong. In Malaysia, after giving birth, women wear the Sarong around their waist because it is more convenient. For example, when going to the bathroom etc. As for the grandmother’s generation, since the weather is so hot and women are no longer pressured to maintain their figure, they wear the Sarong up to their chest as a one-piece dress. (Sarong is a traditional long apron in Malaysia)
Q6. 在觀戲的同時發現燈光效果也隨著三代而轉換，這些安排有它特別的意義嗎？
A6. 肯定有，在不同的年代，家裡的氛圍也不一樣。以前可能還沒有日光燈，大家都用比較昏暗的燈泡；後來家裡有了日光燈，但是以前人很省，可能整個家只點一盞；到後來2018年女兒搬到新家之後，燈光強度就要有很陽光的感覺。
Q6. While watching the show, I found that the lighting shifted along with the change of the characters. Does this arrangement have a special significance?
A6. The home atmosphere is different in different periods of time. Before the fluorescent lamps were invented, it was common to use the dimmer light bulbs. Even after fluorescent lamps were commonly used at home, people would turn on one light only in order to save money. It is shortly after the daughter moves to her new home that the lighting becomes stronger in the performance. We want to emphasize the daughter’s “new life” through the effect of lighting.
Q7. 一代代延續下來，對於女性的刻板印象即便是2019年的現在也處處可見。看似追求自由的年代，女性被貼上的標籤其實還有更多，不論是在家庭、職場或婚姻裡都是如此。倘若以後有機會的話，您會想試著探討像婆媳關係這種衝突感更強烈的主題嗎？
A7. 其實我覺得這些特質（議題）永遠講不完，都很有趣，有機會當然想嘗試也想聊這些東西，因為女性的議題太多了。女性也一直在進步，所以很多東西可以再看，往下發展。
Q7. Even though we are living in a free and open society, it seems that women are still stuck with labels in the family, workplace and marriage. Would you like to try to explore themes like mother/daughter-in-law relationship in the near future?
A7. Since there are too many interesting “women’s issues,” I would definitely like to explore more about them if I get a chance. Additionally, modern women in many aspects are making progress, so there will be lots of “women’s issues” that we can further discuss.
Q8. 那愛美麗亞您會這麼關注在女性議題是有什麼原因的嗎？
A8. 我並不覺得需要為了強調女性才做一個課題，每個女性角色都有她可以說的話，所以我都會想用不同的劇本去呈現。身為一位女性演員，我覺得自己可以再為女性多做一些什麼，更努力探討女性議題，畢竟我也沒有很多能力去詮釋男人這一塊。我希望能為女性發聲，因為女性一直是被欺壓的族群，那這個世紀如果我們能為女性多做一些，就也能夠幫依舊被欺壓的女性說一些話。
Q8. Why do you pay so much attention to women’s issues?
A8. I think we don’t have to make a new drama in order just to be a voice for women and arouse public attention. As a professional actress, I will try different ways or expressions with drama to make women’s voices heard by the public. Additionally, considering my incapability of interpreting and exploring themes about men, I wish I could do more for women and make more efforts to explore women-related issues. Since women have long been scorched by oppression and injustice, if I could make more efforts and speak up for women these days, I think it will make a difference.
Q9. 根據許多報章雜誌的採訪，愛美麗亞您的演出遍佈上海、新加坡、泰國、台灣、印尼及日本，請問若是《有故事的人：......因為你是女人》有機會搬上歐美國家的舞台，您覺得是否能引起觀眾產生共鳴呢？歐美的婚姻文化會不會與本劇中呈現的亞洲婚姻文化激盪出不同的火花呢？
A9. 一定會有火花，即便歐美國家很開放，社會上也還是存在著女性被欺壓的情況，所以我覺得去那邊可能會有更大的迴響，因為他們通常會很直接地表達自己的想法。同時那裡也有宗教的問題讓他們壓抑很久，這可能也會引起更多的話題討論。
Q9. According to some interviews, Amelia has been performing in Shanghai, Singapore, Thailand, Taiwan, Indonesia, and Japan. If The Storyteller: …because you are a woman has a chance to be performed in European and American countries, do you think that the show would be paid more attention to in western countries? Would the differences in marriage between the East and the West solicit new ideas?
A9 Definitely, there would be. Even though European and American societies are open to different thoughts, women are still oppressed, unfortunately. So, I think this show would derive more attention in western countries because Westerners tend to express their opinions directly. Meanwhile, I think because of religious problems that have affected western people for a long time, there may be more issues to be discussed in the future.
Q10. 在2015年光明日報的採訪中，愛美麗亞您提到新加坡與馬來西亞兩國政府對於藝文活動的支持與政策是相差甚遠的，想請問您這些年來在台灣也參與了不少演出，在您觀察之下，台灣對於藝文活動的態度，又是怎麼樣的呢？
A10. 我覺得馬來西亞與你們最大的差別是，我們一直沒有政府的支持，一直都是民間自己在做，所以怎麼比都沒有辦法與你們對比，因為你們有很好的政府在支持，雖然講說你們的錢也越來越少，但至少你們的政府很注重這一塊，我們的政府是完全不把表演藝術、文化放在國家發展的軌道上，所以我們永遠是在邊緣的邊緣。我們很多都是民間在辦、自己自力更生在搞演出，即便是自己的文化也是我們自己在推，所以我覺得這個與台灣或新加坡就有很大的差別了，政府的力量真的很重要。
Q10. According to Guang Ming Daily in 2015, Amelia mentioned that the policies for the performing arts in Singaporean and Malaysian governments are very different. According to your experience of working in Taiwan so far, what do you think about the Taiwanese government’s attitude towards the performing arts?
A10. I think the main difference between Malaysia and Taiwan is that we have never received financial support from the government. We have no choice but to depend on our own. Hence, there is no way to compare with Taiwan because you can always rely on the government’s support for the performing arts industry. Even if I have heard that the subsidies are decreasing here in Taiwan, at least your government pays attention to the arts industry. Our government does not consider cultural policies significant to national cultural development, so we are always left out, and many of us are forced to work independently without any official sponsorship. Based on this fact I have mentioned above, I think the promotion of culture in Taiwan or in Singapore is far better than that in Malaysia. As a result, we can see the importance the government plays in a country’s cultural development.
The Storyteller: ......because you are a woman(《有故事的人：......因為你是女人》) is a monodrama which focuses on three women living in Penang (檳城) and their different perspectives on marriage. Is marriage a passage to gain their happiness, or a trap to lose their freedom? Amelia’s (愛美麗亞)impressive performance will lead us to explore the stories of these women. We had an interview with Amelia to learn about her opinions and thoughts on this play.
Q1. 媽媽問祖母說：「我結婚生小孩，妳有沒有高興？」顯示結婚並非出於自己的意願，而是滿足他人的期待，祖母與媽媽的那個時代，社會期待就是只要女性就一定要結婚，但人生真的因婚姻而圓滿嗎？
A1. 當然不是，我覺得現在女性有自己的生活，追求自己的理想，不一定要有圓滿的婚姻才是人生的最大目標。
Q1. In The Storyteller: …because you are a woman, the mother asks the grandmother “are you happy that I am married and have a child?” Through this question, we could tell that in the grandmother’s generation, women were asked to marry not so much of their free will as to merely meet social expectation. Are these women really happy after they get married?
A1. Of course not. I think women these days prefer achieving their own ambition and living their own lives to considering a decent marriage. Marriage is no longer a priority in their life anymore.
Q2. 劇中第三段祖母回應媽媽時，字字句句裡顯露出她守舊及傳統的心態，甚至是一廂情願的「認命」，但最後祖母卻挺身支持媽媽離婚，這其中的轉變是什麼？
A2. 在劇中的那個年代，祖母支持媽媽離婚主要是她想到自己婚姻的不美滿，也擔心自己的女兒（這裡指媽媽的角色）會步向自己的後塵。對祖母來說這其實很難取捨，所以到最後祖母跟她說：「如果丈夫沒辦法照顧妳跟孩子，就離婚吧！如果這個男生對妳不好也不愛妳了，那就放手吧！」
Q2. In The Storyteller: …because you are a woman, the grandmother’s lines reveal conservative and traditional social disciplines, and even show her accommodation to “destiny.” But why does the grandmother speak up in support of the mother’s divorce in the end?
A2. In the play, the grandmother supports mother’s divorce mainly because she feels that her marriage is not happy, and she is also worried that her daughter (the mother) would have an unhappy marriage. Despite the fact that the grandmother is caught in such a dilemma, she still tells her daughter: “If your husband cannot take care of you and your child, you should divorce him!”
Q3. 最讓我印象深刻的是最後一句話，那段錄音帶的聲音：「妳結婚我就歡喜，妳生小孩我更歡喜。」即便導演說此齣劇是開放式結局，但對愛美麗亞您來說這句話是否也隱含著女性仍然活在父系社會的框架？
A3. 媽媽第四段有說到，一段婚姻最重要的是要有一個伴，再到最後她說妳結婚我很開心，妳有小孩我會更開心，可是最後女兒自己的選擇是怎樣，媽媽已經不能夠再做主或再有權利去管妳，媽媽只是把心願講出來，但最重要的還是希望自己的女兒有個伴，幸福就好。
Q3. What impresses me the most is the looped recording at the end, which says “I will be delighted if you marry a decent guy; I will be more delighted if you also have a baby.” Even though the director says the ending of this drama production is open for the audience to interpret, do you think the recording signifies that women are still confined by patriarchal thinking?
A3. Well, as the mother has said, the most important thing in marriage is to have a soul mate. Hence, no matter what choice the daughter would make, the mother has symbolically “freed” the daughter and has let her make her own decision. All the mother can do is to tell the daughter her expectations and traditional values. Regardless of what decision her daughter would make, she will fully support her. What the mother really wants is that her daughter can find a partner and have a happy marriage.
Q4. 「妳開心我就開心」透露出媽媽是帶著祖母的期待踏入婚姻的，她也知道在那個年代女生不結婚會被看不起，即便她其實比較享受一個人過生活。請問您認為這份「期待」所造成的衝突已經消失了嗎？
A4. 媽媽自己覺得不結婚會被看不起，在那個年代，女人都會覺得如果到了一定的年齡，再不被人家娶走，自己可能就是「剩女」，或是一個另類。媽媽其實也沒有覺得一個人比較開心，她覺得要找一個喜歡她的男人，她喜歡的男人要是愛她的，然後要夠帥，但最後沒有想到找到的是一個欺騙她的男人。
Q4. As the mother says to the grandmother, “I am happy if you are happy,” it reveals that the mother got married in order to fulfill the grandmother’s expectation of her. She knows that women would be greatly despised if they are not married, even though they enjoy being single. Do you think that the conflict caused by this “expectation” has disappeared?
A4. The mother feels that she would be looked down upon by others if she had not been married. In the past, women thought that if they were not married, they would be “leftovers.” Although the mother does not find marriage indispensable in her life, she still wants to find a man who is handsome and loves her dearly. However, little does she know that she ends up finding a playboy who cheats on her all the time.
Q5. 我非常欽佩愛美麗亞您在三個角色間的轉換，不論是情緒、聲音、語調都詮釋得非常的傳神，除此之外，我還發現從一開始沒有穿圍裙的女兒，到穿上圍裙的媽媽還有最後圍裙穿到胸部的祖母，請問圍裙在這齣劇有任何象徵意涵嗎？
A5. 一定有的。第二場媽媽圍裙圍在腰部，是因為我們這裡的婦女生產之後都會穿「沙龍」（Sarong，馬來語，指由一片布製成長裙狀的「圍裙」，馬來西亞傳統服裝）， 婦女生產之後都會這樣穿，方便上廁所等等。那像祖母的圍裙穿到胸口，是因為這裡天氣很熱，阿嬤們都會單穿沙龍到胸口，這樣比較涼快，她們也不太在意自己的形象、或很矜持，通常都會這樣穿。
Q5. What we are really impressed by your performance is how you switch playing the roles among the different characters. We also notice the daughter does not wear the Sarong, whereas the mother wears it around her waist and the grandmother wears it up to her chest. Is there any symbolic meaning about the Sarong?
A5. Yes, certainly. There is a meaning about the Sarong. In Malaysia, after giving birth, women wear the Sarong around their waist because it is more convenient. For example, when going to the bathroom etc. As for the grandmother’s generation, since the weather is so hot and women are no longer pressured to maintain their figure, they wear the Sarong up to their chest as a one-piece dress. (Sarong is a traditional long apron in Malaysia)
Q6. 在觀戲的同時發現燈光效果也隨著三代而轉換，這些安排有它特別的意義嗎？
A6. 肯定有，在不同的年代，家裡的氛圍也不一樣。以前可能還沒有日光燈，大家都用比較昏暗的燈泡；後來家裡有了日光燈，但是以前人很省，可能整個家只點一盞；到後來2018年女兒搬到新家之後，燈光強度就要有很陽光的感覺。
Q6. While watching the show, I found that the lighting shifted along with the change of the characters. Does this arrangement have a special significance?
A6. The home atmosphere is different in different periods of time. Before the fluorescent lamps were invented, it was common to use the dimmer light bulbs. Even after fluorescent lamps were commonly used at home, people would turn on one light only in order to save money. It is shortly after the daughter moves to her new home that the lighting becomes stronger in the performance. We want to emphasize the daughter’s “new life” through the effect of lighting.
Q7. 一代代延續下來，對於女性的刻板印象即便是2019年的現在也處處可見。看似追求自由的年代，女性被貼上的標籤其實還有更多，不論是在家庭、職場或婚姻裡都是如此。倘若以後有機會的話，您會想試著探討像婆媳關係這種衝突感更強烈的主題嗎？
A7. 其實我覺得這些特質（議題）永遠講不完，都很有趣，有機會當然想嘗試也想聊這些東西，因為女性的議題太多了。女性也一直在進步，所以很多東西可以再看，往下發展。
Q7. Even though we are living in a free and open society, it seems that women are still stuck with labels in the family, workplace and marriage. Would you like to try to explore themes like mother/daughter-in-law relationship in the near future?
A7. Since there are too many interesting “women’s issues,” I would definitely like to explore more about them if I get a chance. Additionally, modern women in many aspects are making progress, so there will be lots of “women’s issues” that we can further discuss.
Q8. 那愛美麗亞您會這麼關注在女性議題是有什麼原因的嗎？
A8. 我並不覺得需要為了強調女性才做一個課題，每個女性角色都有她可以說的話，所以我都會想用不同的劇本去呈現。身為一位女性演員，我覺得自己可以再為女性多做一些什麼，更努力探討女性議題，畢竟我也沒有很多能力去詮釋男人這一塊。我希望能為女性發聲，因為女性一直是被欺壓的族群，那這個世紀如果我們能為女性多做一些，就也能夠幫依舊被欺壓的女性說一些話。
Q8. Why do you pay so much attention to women’s issues?
A8. I think we don’t have to make a new drama in order just to be a voice for women and arouse public attention. As a professional actress, I will try different ways or expressions with drama to make women’s voices heard by the public. Additionally, considering my incapability of interpreting and exploring themes about men, I wish I could do more for women and make more efforts to explore women-related issues. Since women have long been scorched by oppression and injustice, if I could make more efforts and speak up for women these days, I think it will make a difference.
Q9. 根據許多報章雜誌的採訪，愛美麗亞您的演出遍佈上海、新加坡、泰國、台灣、印尼及日本，請問若是《有故事的人：......因為你是女人》有機會搬上歐美國家的舞台，您覺得是否能引起觀眾產生共鳴呢？歐美的婚姻文化會不會與本劇中呈現的亞洲婚姻文化激盪出不同的火花呢？
A9. 一定會有火花，即便歐美國家很開放，社會上也還是存在著女性被欺壓的情況，所以我覺得去那邊可能會有更大的迴響，因為他們通常會很直接地表達自己的想法。同時那裡也有宗教的問題讓他們壓抑很久，這可能也會引起更多的話題討論。
Q9. According to some interviews, Amelia has been performing in Shanghai, Singapore, Thailand, Taiwan, Indonesia, and Japan. If The Storyteller: …because you are a woman has a chance to be performed in European and American countries, do you think that the show would be paid more attention to in western countries? Would the differences in marriage between the East and the West solicit new ideas?
A9 Definitely, there would be. Even though European and American societies are open to different thoughts, women are still oppressed, unfortunately. So, I think this show would derive more attention in western countries because Westerners tend to express their opinions directly. Meanwhile, I think because of religious problems that have affected western people for a long time, there may be more issues to be discussed in the future.
Q10. 在2015年光明日報的採訪中，愛美麗亞您提到新加坡與馬來西亞兩國政府對於藝文活動的支持與政策是相差甚遠的，想請問您這些年來在台灣也參與了不少演出，在您觀察之下，台灣對於藝文活動的態度，又是怎麼樣的呢？
A10. 我覺得馬來西亞與你們最大的差別是，我們一直沒有政府的支持，一直都是民間自己在做，所以怎麼比都沒有辦法與你們對比，因為你們有很好的政府在支持，雖然講說你們的錢也越來越少，但至少你們的政府很注重這一塊，我們的政府是完全不把表演藝術、文化放在國家發展的軌道上，所以我們永遠是在邊緣的邊緣。我們很多都是民間在辦、自己自力更生在搞演出，即便是自己的文化也是我們自己在推，所以我覺得這個與台灣或新加坡就有很大的差別了，政府的力量真的很重要。
Q10. According to Guang Ming Daily in 2015, Amelia mentioned that the policies for the performing arts in Singaporean and Malaysian governments are very different. According to your experience of working in Taiwan so far, what do you think about the Taiwanese government’s attitude towards the performing arts?
A10. I think the main difference between Malaysia and Taiwan is that we have never received financial support from the government. We have no choice but to depend on our own. Hence, there is no way to compare with Taiwan because you can always rely on the government’s support for the performing arts industry. Even if I have heard that the subsidies are decreasing here in Taiwan, at least your government pays attention to the arts industry. Our government does not consider cultural policies significant to national cultural development, so we are always left out, and many of us are forced to work independently without any official sponsorship. Based on this fact I have mentioned above, I think the promotion of culture in Taiwan or in Singapore is far better than that in Malaysia. As a result, we can see the importance the government plays in a country’s cultural development.
2019年3月29日(五) 7:30PM
2019年3月30日(六)2:30PM．7:30PM
2019年3月30日(六)2:30PM．7:30PM
